Round 1

The first mistake that you enter into your Criticism of M.M.S. is that you think that Chlorine Dioxide and Chlorine are the same thing and that they would thus have the same result in the human body. So let me address that point first.

The fact is, there is no available chlorine in chlorine dioxide. It’s sort of like table salt, there is no available chlorine in table salt, if there were, you would have been dead long ago. Do you see? Table salt is made of chlorine and sodium. Yet it doesn’t kill you. The same situation exists with chlorine dioxide.

Let me suggest a little bit of chemical technology reading. Lenntech a Corporation that sells many kinds of chlorine for various purification purposes has published a technical article on chlorine dioxide that is quoted in many Colleges and Universities around the world. The name of the article is "Disinfectants Chlorine Dioxide." Let me quote just a couple sentences in the paragraph labeled Chlorine Dioxide as an oxidizer: "As an oxidizer chlorine dioxide is very selective. It has this ability due to unique one-electron exchange mechanisms. Chlorine dioxide attacks the electron-rich centers of organic molecules. (I hope everyone understands that pathogens are made of organic molecules) "First, chlorine dioxide takes up a single electron and this causes it to reduce to chlorite: The chlorite ion is oxidized and becomes a chloride ion and that during this reaction it accepts 5 electrons. The chlorine atom remains, until stable chloride is formed from it." I hope you understand what that means. It means that no chlorite or chlorine is formed. It turns to chlorite first, but only for milliseconds and then to chloride (which is table salt.)

To explain those quotes a little bit if it is too technical, the "Chloride" that is mentioned that is formed is table salt (sodium chloride). The chlorine atom remains until chloride is formed. No free chlorine ever becomes available from the chlorine dioxide. The Lenntech.org article goes on to explain that chlorine dioxide has a very low oxidation potential (under .95 volts), much lower than chlorine which is (over 1.4 volts), or oxygen which is (about 1.3 volts), or hydrogen peroxide which is (1.8 volts) and thus cannot oxidize many of the microorganisms in water supplies and other plants where selective oxidizers are needed. And to then explain that in terms of M.M.S., chlorine dioxide in very low concentrates cannot kill some of the beneficial organisms located in the stomach and intestines that are required for digestion.

This data is available from many different educational sources in the world. Don’t take it from me. Look it up for yourself. You may not be aware of the fact that sodium chlorite has been sold in Health food stores for 80 years in the US and was brought to America from Germany about 1930. Only the name was different it is called stabilized oxygen. Hundreds of thousands... [Word count rule exceeded]


Thank you for not getting "too technical" for our feeble minds. We appreciate your concern for us.

Mr. Humble, it has been you who has been intentionally blurring and confusing the lines between the different compounds that chlorine can form. On one hand, you claim M.M.S. is as harmless as salt, while on the other hand, you speak of how powerfully reactive the chlorine is, which supposedly enables it to "kill everything". By the way, we actually agree on that last part. So which is it? Is the chlorine neutralized, so your customers are buying glorified table salt, or is it the powerful reactive chlorine that is well known for its toxicity? Either way, it's called "fraud". You cannot have it both ways, but nice try.

Just so you know, table salt is not harmless either, as I'm sure a great world-changing engineer like yourself knows. The only salt that is almost harmless is sea salt, because it contains minerals that counteract the toxic effects of the chloride. Table salt is well known for its toxic effects, so even if your safety claims were true, you would still be arguing from an eroded position. You also recommend M.M.S. for people with heart disease and high blood pressure, so if your product is safe "like salt", then you are part of their health problems.

As far as its safety, first let us state that your chlorine dioxide is identical to that used for pool decontaminations, and the effects of intentionally consuming it are well known. For one thing, it is an E.P.A. registered pesticide. According to the E.P.A., "Chlorine dioxide is an antimicrobial pesticide recognized for its disinfectant properties since the early 1900s. Chlorine dioxide kills microorganisms by disrupting transport of nutrients across the cell wall."

We already looked it up, and that's why we wrote the original article. The burden of proof is upon you to prove us wrong, if you can.

There is no chlorine dioxide in stabilized oxygen. There is a small amount of table salt inside it. Nice try, but we're well-versed in your slight-of-hand tricks.

I'm standing here with Thomas' electronics multimeter, with its probes inside some hydrogen peroxide, and frankly, I'm just not getting any voltage reading from it. Should we recalibrate the meter? We are a little slow, after all. Seriously, we can talk about your atomic theories all you want, and go into as many circles with those as you want, but the fact that matters is that the effects of your product upon the human body are already well known, and the electrons really don't care. Let's stick with the real issues here, and you can impress us with your fancy-smancy nuclear knowledge later.

Comments   

Robert Ferguson
# Robert Ferguson 2010-08-25 11:53
They're like parasites, aren't they? Maybe you should use MMS on some of these people. :-)

The most recent article here (heart disease) had a quote in it that I remember seeing in the magazine H.W. put out.

Quote:
Chlorine is the greatest crippler and killer of modern times. While it prevented epidemics of one disease, it was creating another. Two decades ago, after the start of chlorinating our drinking water in 1904, the present epidemic of heart trouble, cancer and senility began.
The chlorine compound used in municipal water is "MMS". They are exactly the same chemical. It was noticed at the beginning of the 1900's that the new "MMS" contamination of the water supplies was causing horrible diseases at levels never seen before, so they waited until the 1950's and then started using fluoride too! I'm glad they're looking out for us!

I decided to look up the guy who made the quote (Dr. Price), but there are so many Prices on the Internet that I ended up going in circles. Anyway, that's not important.

I came upon a page that pretty much spells out what a person can expect from MMS, because it cites what lower a dosage in the standard drinking water does.

http://www.holistichealthtools.com/chlorine.html

By the way. Great job guys. I know you two are taking a lot of flack from these types of articles, but somebody out there has to tell the truth. Somebody's got to play the cowboy when everyone else is too afraid.
Thomas Corriher (Managing Editor)
# Thomas Corriher (Managing Editor) 2010-09-01 04:57
This post contains a submitted comment. I would not normally post something like it, but it shows the modus operandi of Humble's M.M.S. inner circle. It was so slick and devious in its manipulations that it is disgusting. We are posting this because the psychological ploys it catalogs may be useful to potential victims of fraudsters, and to other reporters who likewise get astroturfed with this hapless garbage.

Here's a fun test for readers. Read the quote below and see how many of the manipulation tricks you can detect. My notes are at the bottom for you to check your success rate. It's fun. Try it!

Quote:
Sarah and Thomas,

FYI I am not an MMS seller or in any way connected with it's manufacture or distribution but I have researched it and used it not only myself but a number of friends and family members have received phenomenal results from MMS. I read your "article" about the MMS "fraud" and I must say it is appalling in it's lack of even the most basic factual basis. The MMS solution is NOT CHLORINE nor does it produce chlorine in the body or react as chlorine does. There is a wealth of factual information about how Chlorine Dioxide functions as a scavenger and killer of pathogens. The information provided on MMS information sites about how Chlorine Dioxide functions has been transparent and scientifically solid.

How can you even claim to be a site that informs about any! thing at all when your "information" that you postulate as fact is so fraught with gross error and misinformation that it would be laughable except for the fact that you are misleading people who are duped into believing your outrageous claims of researching subjects and "exposing frauds".

If your article and posts are read with any discerning intelligence at all it becomes obvious that your site is committing the fraud against the readers. The posts are such a flagrant smoke screen and insulting in their transparency as self generated propaganda to support the fantasies you put forward as "facts" that spit in the face of documented scientific evidence.

Of course this post probably won't make it onto your site because it is too truthful and real. As you put it, Thomas, you will probably just "censure out comments, which are obviously contrary to the welfare of our readership." HA!

You don't trust your readership to be intelligent enough to read open comments about content? Or more likely, you realize that they would come to the same conclusions that I did.

What ship did you say your readership was again? The TITANIC?
Notice in the quote that the manipulator believes that he has psychologically profiled me, and knows enough about my character to manipulate me. He's overestimating himself.

It's particularly interesting that this person knows that we are censuring such spams, and he would only know this if he had been flooding us with such messages using different names.

Test Yourself Time! How many did you spot?

1 - He's an anonymous, yet completely independent 3rd party who's just interested in scientific facts that support MMS sales.

2 - Even though he's an anonymous, independent 3rd party, and normal person, researching M.M.S. somehow is his hobby (scientifically of course).

3 - He says M.M.S. is not chlorine. (It's just chlorine dioxide used for chlorination). Thus, it is completely safe not being what it is.

4 - Bait and switch. He claimed that M.M.S. (pool disinfectant) is known to kill pathogens as his strong point of factual evidence, even though we never claimed that M.M.S. would not kill. In fact, Sarah wrote that it kills a little too well, and its destructive tendencies makes it an excellent bleaching agent for industrial use. Chlorine dioxide in the drinking water is probably the largest single cause of heart disease.

5 - Guilt. I am a very bad, bad, naughty editor. I am apparently hurting all of you by withholding MMS marketing, and I should be very ashamed.

6 - Turbo Guilt. He used my own editorial comments about managing a news source with journalistic integrity from when I wrote, "censure out comments, which are obviously contrary to the welfare of our readership." This one is slicker than is readily obvious, and this shows the mind of a sociopath. He spotted that quote elsewhere while looking for ammunition and building his profile of me. On one hand, he is attacking my integrity subtly with a freedom of speech implication, as if we owe him a marketing forum for his crap, and that we are trampling on his rights. This ploy is also intended to infer that I am preventing our readers from getting the type of open discussion that they want and deserve. Of course, I actually have no problems with legitimate discussions that are open and honest. Lies, on the other hand, are a problem.

7 - He made a sad attempt at reverse psychology. He implied that our not posting his deceitful marketing is somehow proof that he is right, therefore I'm forced to post the comment our of fear that I'll look wrong. Anyone who has studied sociopathology, or who has had the misfortune of being around such a person for any length of time will easily see the usual pattern of behavior by this point.

8 - He likes to mention scientific proof without actually mentioning any scientific proof. Claims of con-men are not scientific proof.

9 - Finally, the overall writing style and belittling platitudes about superior intelligence closely match those of Jim Humble's, and we're certain that it is him. He likes to write to us using different names, in the same way that criminals use different aliases.
Jonathan Campbell
# Great debate! Jonathan Campbell 2010-11-01 20:25
I have written a short article on my website about MMS, which everyone will enjoy. It's at http://www.cqs.com/mms.htm

The thing that is missing from the debate is that Humble's claim that MMS (aka sodium chlorite -> chlorine dioxide) does not create elemental chlorine is patently false. I found this out from Joe Thornton's book Pandora's Poison.

Apparently the notion that CLO2 was "elemental chlorine free" was a marketing ploy by the pulp/paper industry, and what it meant literally is that they no longer actually used elemental chlorine as an input chemical. But when CLO2 is created in water from aqueous sodium chlorite, it immediately reacts with water to produce both elemental chlorine and hypochlorous acid as byproducts! The proof is that the pulp/paper plants still created huge amounts of chlorinated hydrocarbon contamination in the wastewater.

So all of Jim Humble's claims about the "safety" of MMS because it doesn't have any elemental chlorine are complete bunk.

Regards
Jonathan
Zack Wesley
# intersting debate Zack Wesley 2011-08-08 18:18
very interesting debate but I do not understand your hostility and sarcasm that you are using in arguing your points.

don't you think it would be more productive to use your arguments to drive your point?
Thomas Corriher (Managing Editor)
# Thomas Corriher (Managing Editor) 2011-08-15 12:38
If the debate had been polite, despite Humble's unwillingness to obey his own rules, then we would have not accomplished anything. The tone of the debate is exactly why this report became somewhat viral on the Net, and therefore, we almost certainly saved more people with our aggressiveness. As editor, I stand behind my decision to have Sarah go after Humble with a "no holding back" policy. We would gladly do it again.

We try to help people who are merely mislead, but Humble is causing people to be mislead. There are no chivalrous rules of engagement when fighting the devil. Jim Humble boasts of his chemistry knowledge everywhere, which means that he knows exactly what he is doing to people, and he's doing it on purpose. He is truly evil.

We can save people or we can be politically correct cowards like you are. That decision was made long ago.
Lois Kolbet
# Jim Humble and automatic garage door Lois Kolbet 2013-07-05 16:19
From Wikipedia: The electric overhead garage door opener was invented by C.G. Johnson in 1926 in Hartford City, Indiana.

From Jim's website: On top of all this, he also single handedly designed and built the first working model for the automated garage door that we all now take for granted!

Now there are five stages of the automatic garage door opener, so he may have done one of them...
onya nwokedi
# I know im late! onya nwokedi 2016-02-26 11:53
It's so sad. This whole thing is sad.
I know for a fact MMS is a killer I am UK BSc Chemistry and Forensic Science holder and have a Masters in Toxicology. Obviously I was laughing out loud to myself when he kept mentioning electrons.
Anyway the sad part is he and many others out there are praying on all those with no hope who have given up on conventional medicine. Those who have been told by their Doctors theres nothing we can do. Those are the desperate people seeking hope and will believe anything alternative you tell them. That's who he gets.

By the way I am victim too as I tried it plus the MMS2
What is does is make you within seconds violently through up your entire stomach contents (remember you have to take it on an empty stomach to be most effective) of which hours later you will be lying in bed with extricating stomach pain as if your stomach acid is burning through your intestinal wall. Thats what I experienced and that was with 7 drops.
Anyway I couldn't stand the smell, the constant vomiting and stomach pain soon put me off, but a friend of mine still uses it. i have noticed over the years he is looking more and more unhealthy, thin, older, just plain old unhealthy.
Till this day I can't stand by a swimming pool and smell chlorine and not gag a little.

MMS i literally poison

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